Update on UFO Enigma

James Martinez, Nicholas Watson, Christopher Davis and 10 others like this.

Mary Honey Kopacz I think it's arrogant to think we are the only intelligent life form. It doesn't even make common sense. When you look at where we are headed, we are going to need a new planet soon. We've ruined this one so we need to head out. What would a human body look like after years in space? What would several generations of space make us look like? Our bones and muscles will shrivel and weaken, our eyes squish, our bellies protrude. And our skin would dry out and lose color. I wonder if we'd look like a Roswell gray? Wouldn't we try to go back and warn our ancestors? Maybe take some DNA? I think we have Aliens and Time Travelers. If I could travel back in time, I'd try to warn people and so would others. It's a common motivation so it makes sense to me.

Yesterday at 3:35am · Like · 1

Billy Rizzo They have always been here, this is a prison planet.

Yesterday at 6:00am · Like · 1

Jack Sarfatti Don Davis is wrong in his facts. " It's not at all clear that there are any 'them' to be from wherever, except for those making such claims." is hogwash.

Yesterday at 2:53pm · Edited · Like · 3

Dave Silverstein Aliens are no my more real than the nose on my face. Yes, you read that right. There are spacecraft cave drawings from long before our current age of technology. I have never doubted their presence on the planet. Never. Some people are born more evolved and aware than others. Some people think too much, and don't let the obvious, be obvious. We weren't all created equal.

Yesterday at 4:09pm · Like · 1

Don Davis Alright, let us discuss what constitutes evidence. Do you agree the burden of proof is on those who make extraordinary claims? You seem to imply we have good evidence of alien visitations. I have given this topic decades of thought as I presume you have.

When it comes to physical events our ability to capture them has reached a degree of saturation where things like a spiral outgassing of a rocket launch mishap, meteors, and other widely visible extraordinary natural events are likely to be captured in multiple angles in still and video images.

A collective 'sky watch' is also a continuing process in the form of amateur astronomy groups, tens of thousands of them. They head out to dark sky sites across the country and are experienced sky observers. One would expect high quality reports to emerge from this community if and when visitations by alien machines come their way.
The proliferation of observatory and research center all sky cameras being used to record the skies is another factor giving us more data to draw upon when checking a story out.

So, if we are talking about assuming Earth is being swarmed with visits by aliens using physical machines we are able to start to define upper limits to the time and location of such visits. If they avoid being documented that is surely telling us something. If we are talking about relatively elusive phenomena like St. Elmos fire, that passed the threshold of being well documented quite a while ago. Ball lightning has barely crossed that threshold but is still poorly documented, although a reasonable faximily to what is reported has been reproduced in labs.

Comparing the cases of objectively real things that become so by quality observations is worthwhile. They contrast with UFOs, which seem to consistently dwell in the realm of the undocumented. There doesn't seem to be the kind of converging of observations and theories being confirmed and disproved with 'flying saucers' that we see with things observed, studied, and made sense of. Of course high quality observations tend to remove the 'U' from the 'UFO', and from the realm of speculation aligned toward the ultimate mystery in our collective minds.

Yesterday at 4:09pm · 3

Mary Honey Kopacz The days of "Its just a weather balloon" are over. I'm not buying it. Too many credible witnesses out there. Astronauts, Pilots, Astronomers, Psychologists... I know several people in my own circle that have seen things that can't be explained. Intelligent, sane people. I believe them.

Yesterday at 4:49pm · Like

Billy Rizzo http://www.nicap.org/papers/randdoc.htm

The RAND Corporation on UFOs !

But first, a few words about the term UFO. J. A. Hynek, an astronomer having continuous involvement with UFO...

NICAP.ORG|BY ADAM

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John D Bent Sigh

Yesterday at 6:14pm · Like

John D Bent Love you, Jack!

Yesterday at 6:14pm · Like

Jack Sarfatti Just do your homework Don, you obviously have not. Here are a few leads http://www.mufon.com

Welcome to MUFON

What is the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON)?

MUFON.COM

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/.../National_Institute_for...

National Institute for Discovery Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDSci) was a privately financed research organization based in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, and operated from 1995 to 2004.

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Roger Giuffre real open mind, jack

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Maccabee

Bruce Maccabee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bruce Maccabee (May 6, 1942) is an American optical...

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Pope_(journalist)

Nick Pope (journalist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nick Pope (born 19 September 1965) is a freelance British journalist and media commentator.[1] He was an employee at the British Government's Ministry of Defence (MoD) from 1985 to 2006 and is best known for a project he worked on for the British Government from 1991 to 1994 which involved investiga…

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Hill

Paul R. Hill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Paul Richard Hill (1909–1990) was a renowned [1] mid–twentieth-century American aerodynamicist. He was a leading research and development engineer and manager for NASA (National Aeronautical and Space Administration) and its predecessor, NACA (the National Advisory Council for Aeronautics) between 1…

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.disclosureproject.org/.../pdf/ScienceArticle1.pdf

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_J._Ruppelt

Edward J. Ruppelt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edward J. Ruppelt (July 17, 1923 – September 15, 1960) was a United States Air Force officer probably best known for his involvement in Project Blue Book, a formal governmental study of unidentified flying objects. He is generally credited with coining the term "unidentified flying object", to repla…

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.nicap.org/rufo/contents2.htm

Report on Unidentified Flying Objects - Ruppelt

All reports received were subjected to military intelligence analysis procedures. Astronomers, physicists, aerodynamic engineers, and psychologists were consulted in the course of the Air Force's exhaustive investigations. The official Air Technical Intelligence Center reports of their findings, man…

NICAP.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.theparacast.com/.../dr-eric-davis-at-2010-sse.../

Dr Eric Davis at 2010 SSE discussing UFO propulsion, Skinwalker Ranch and more...

From UFO UPDATES: From: J. Maynard Gelinas...

THEPARACAST.COM

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/Vallee-Davis-model.pdf

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/high_strangeness.htm

High Strangeness by Laura Knight-Jadczyk and Arkadiusz Jadczyk

From the December 14, 1974 issue of TV Guide, a media...

CASSIOPAEA.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_T._Friedman

Stanton T. Friedman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stanton Friedman (born July 29, 1934) is a professional...

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Dolan

Richard M. Dolan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dolan grew up in Brentwood, New York,[1] he attended Alfred University and Oxford University prior to graduate work in history at the University of Rochester.[2]

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Don Davis http://greyfalcon.us/The%20Man%20Who%20Invented%20Flying...

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.starpod.us/.../ufos-crash-and-burn-at-100.../...

UFOs crash and burn at 100 Year Starship symposium | STARpod US

UFOs crash and burn at 100 Year Starship symposium...

STARPOD.US

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.bbc.com/.../20120321-searching-for-a-starship

BBC - Future - 100 Year Starship: An interstellar leap for mankind?

Is a Pentagon plan for a spaceship travel outside our solar...

BBC.COM

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Jack Sarfatti https://www.academia.edu/.../Low_Power_Starship_Warp...

Low Power Starship Warp Drive (Excerpt from Stardrive book 090514)

A smart high Tc superconductor meta-material with off...

ACADEMIA.EDU

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.starpod.us/.../stealing-warp-drive-from.../...

Stealing warp drive from the gods: The men who would build ‘Prometheus’ …...

STARPOD.US

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Jack Sarfattihttps://www.academia.edu/.../GUIDE_TO_THE_PHYSICS_OF_THE...

GUIDE TO THE PHYSICS OF THE MOVIE INTERSTELLAR

THIRD UPDATE Nov 11, 2014 with 121 hyperlinked...

ACADEMIA.EDU

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Jack Sarfatti https://www.academia.edu/.../Sarfatti_Notes_on_Kip...

Sarfatti Notes on Kip Thorne's Interstellar Movie Book

This is still under construction and does not yet include...

ACADEMIA.EDU

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Jack Sarfatti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso

Philip J. Corso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He served in the United States Army from February 23,...

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/stargate/stargate07a.htm on the fringe

The Stargate Conspiracy

fundamentalist Christianitythe ‘message’ of ancient civilizationsalien abduction scenariothe Trojan Horse of its New Age image

BIBLIOTECAPLEYADES.NET

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Jack Sarfatti Secret CIA Psychic Lab Experiments with Uri Geller at ...
Video for Uri Geller CIA► 32:09► 32:09
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERbTkN82go
Sep 13, 2010 - Uploaded by UFOTV® The Disclosure Movie Network
For over 20 years, scientists at Stanford Research Institute (SRI) carried out SECRET investigations into ESP ...
Uri Geller - Watch The Secret Life of Uri Geller Uncut
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THE SECRET LIFE OF URI GELLER & CIA MASTER SPY ...
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"THE SECRET LIFE OF URI GELLER & CIA MASTER SPY ?" w/ Special Guest Uri Geller Join us as we ...
Secret CIA Psychic Lab Experiments With Uri Geller at ...
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Sep 29, 2014 - Uploaded by Scary Chanel
For over 20 years, scientists at Stanford Research Institute (SRI) carried out SECRET investigations into ESP ...

Secret CIA Psychic Lab Experiments with Uri Geller at Stanford University - FEATURE...

YOUTUBE.COM

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.scribd.com/.../Destiny-Matrix-2012-Jack...

Destiny Matrix 2012 Jack Sarfatti

Scribd is the world's largest social reading and publishing site.

SCRIBD.COM

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Jack Sarfatti http://www.visionaryliving.com/.../skinwalker%20review.pdf

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Don Davis Looks like a good list of on line references on the subject.

I suspect this is a belief driven rather than observation/theory/research driven subject.

As I mentioned, I have also given this subject some thought, and I have a few more submissions for you and anyone else reading this thread to consider. The importance of the pulp magazines in implanting the idea of flying saucers into the culture was convincingly made in the article I cited above.

18 hrs

Jack Sarfatti I have blocked Don Davis. I see he is a true believer debunker without any real credentials in the subject. Those interested in his views go here http://www.donaldedavis.com/2001_addons/DDonUFOs.html I do not want to waste my time on his clueless comments.

You can spend your entire life on this topic and end up with nothing to show for it.

DONALDEDAVIS.COM

11 hrs · Like · 1 · Remove Preview

Jack Sarfatti On Dec 27, 2014, at 11:33 AM, Robert Addinall wrote about the Rand paper

They did quite a good job IMO.

1. Cocteau's estimate of how many highly advanced civilizations may exist in the galaxy was very good and almost exactly how I've tried to articulate the problem at times. I'll probably now use this as a reference. I was surprised at the estimate of 100 million advanced civilizations/average spacing of 10 light years between advanced civilizations. My estimates tended to be an order or two of magnitude lower, but his methodology seems solid even ~45 years later. Of course we now know for certain that most, if not almost all, stars do develop planetary systems, but observing earth sized planets is difficult, so we're still not sure how abundant they are. We do know that a fair number of stars appear to have planets too close or too far to be in a habitable zone, but even that is already taken into account by Cocteau; he estimates 1000 million sun-like stars out of 100 billion stars and drops the number with planets in acceptable orbits to somewhere around 600 million.

Interestingly recent observations and computer models seem to suggest that binary and trinary star systems can have planets in stable orbits around each star, so long as the stars orbit a common barycenter at a sufficient distance; indeed some studies claim to have detected planets circling the two main Alpha Centauri stars (the third smaller star would circle the whole system outside of the two local systems). So perhaps Cocteau's estimate is even conservative.

To get ~10 LY average spacing we should expect civilizations in at least two of the following three systems with reasonably sun-like stars: Epsilon Eridani (though it's probably too young), Tau Ceti and Alpha Centauri. To maintain the spacing places like Gleise 86 would probably have to be inhabited too. So, either there should be loads of activity out there, or else: (a) correctly sized planets in habitable zones are very infrequent for some reason we don't yet understand; (b) for some reason we don't yet understand life fails to get started or to evolve beyond relatively small, simple forms; (c) civilizations tend to destroy themselves.

I keep an open mind but in the absence of data all I can say is that my instincts suggest that (a), (b), and (c) are wrong, which should mean that Cocteau's methodology holds and that there is a lot going on around the galaxy.

2. Another point where we now have a bit more to go on - the old light speed limit discussion further down in the paper. We now have the Thorne wormhole and Alcubierre warp metrics and the associated requirement for negative energy or mass, and we also have the accelerating expansion of the universe, which suggests that negative energy does exist in the universe. This is much more than having no clue as to how interstellar travel might work. Possibly we've actually already figured out generally how it works, but not the details yet. Obviously we can't build anything like this until we know how to generate and control negative energy.

Things like Jack's idea about changing the flexibility of spacetime by changing the speed of light might be techniques that further augment FTL travel or reduce the negative energy requirement.

7 hrs · Like

Jack Sarfatti On Dec 27, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Bruce Maccabee wrote:

A very interesting read after all these years. Shows that, although we have learned a lot in the last 46 years we still don't have universally accepted "proof" - presumably the "killer case" that puts UFO/AFC (Alien Flying Craft) over the top. We are still trying to answer Ruppelt's Canonical Question: what constitutes proof? Proof for one is simply an annoyance to another.
Kocher's example cases are by themselves valid evidence that something strange has been happening. I have investigated numerous candidates for "killer" status. I guess they have convinced some people, but the main thing is that they succeed in keeping my interest up. It turns out that what is important is what the "proof" causes a person to do. such as continue investigating... or lose interest. Unfortunately for Kocher's discussion and other contemporary discussions (such as presented in the Condon report) of the Air Force and CIA activities in the late 40's and early 50's, was the lack of access to the actual internal documents of the Air Force intelligence (AFOIN) and the FBI. These documents, which became available during the latter 70's and through the 80's, show that, although the AF downplayed the importance of UFO investigation and publicly asserted that there was nothing new underlying UFO reports (everything explainable so no flying saucers), privately the top AF generals assumed that at least a small percentage of reports were caused by "interplanetary" craft. This is documented using authentic documents from the AF, FBI and CIA files in my new book, The FBI CIA UFO Connection (see Amazon)

1 min · Like

Update on UFO Enigma

Jack Sarfatti shared a link.